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Transcript: Minisode Five: The one where we talk about incarceration and the holiday season.

Crystal  
[intro music]

Hi everyone. Welcome to our fifth minisode of abolition is for everybody, the one where we talk about incarceration and the holiday season. For those who don’t know, minisodes are much shorter, and a little less polished, but still super friendly and still all about abolition. My name is Crystal and today we are joined by two very special guests. My Season Two co-hosts, Adam, and Danielle Macias. Because it’s your first time being with us, I wanted to welcome you, Danielle, can you please introduce yourself to the audience?

Danielle  
Sure. Hi, my name is Danielle Macias, thank you for having me. Um, my husband was incarcerated for almost 13 years. We’re together the whole time. Because of his incarceration, I kind of accidentally started a business, a stationery business, to help women like me who have a loved one incarcerated. Be it a romantic, like your husband, your boyfriend or your wife, but also moms, sisters, that have someone incarcerated. My husband was released June of 2021. He was resentenced under 1170D. He had gone in with a plea deal of 25 years, but through his rehabilitation work, just overall his change, he ended up doing almost 13 years like I said and came home and is doing awesome.

Crystal  
Thank you so much for being here and I’m really excited and really want to learn about the accidental business that you found as he called it. But first, I want to take a moment to pause and talk about those 13 years of your husband being inside because those are 13 years of holiday seasons, so birthday celebrations and I think when you’re not system impacted like a lot of our our listeners are, it’s kind of hard to fully grasp and understand what that’s like. So can you share a little bit more of of how your loved one and you stayed connected during that time and Adam, being that you were on the inside? I’m really curious, curious to know your perspective, too.

Danielle  
Sure, um, hopefully I don’t cry because I’m big cry baby.

Crystal  
It’s okay to cry. We’ve cried many times.

Danielle  
Okay. So, um, for me, well, I guess the business started, just by me, you know, my husband in the beginning wasn’t programming the way he should have been programming. So we did, you know, a SHU term, we did some SHU terms, whole term, full terms and stuff like that. And there was a point and you know, this was 13 years ago, when the lock downs were a lot more. There were a lot longer. We had like a six month lockdown at Kern Valley and stuff like that, so it was literally just letters. You know, I couldn’t see him. I couldn’t talk to him. We did not have tablets, or video calls, you know, so it was just letters and it got to a point I was writing every single day. I’m like, what can I do to like, change it up a little bit? So at first it started with me drawing on my envelopes. I am not an artist. So that sucked. So I’m like let me see what I can do on the computer, so I just started playing with it and a girl that I used to go out to dinner with after visit saw it one day. I was putting something in the mailbox she’s like, oh, that’s so cute. Where’d you get it? I was a like I made it and she was like, you should sell sell them to the girls in the yard. But I’m like no, I don’t think so. But to be honest, I don’t even remember how it got onto social media but it did. And more people started telling me oh, sell it I want to buy some and True Blue stationery just developed, like on accident. But it ended up being a lot more because through the years I got into advocacy work. That’s how I you know, I started working with Initiate Justice, so it ended up being more. I used to do a lot of my stationary stuff, but I got into advocacy work and trying to change laws and using my platform to help in any way.

Adam  
Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and I just I just got like covered with so many emotions just like thinking about, you know what she was talking about sending you know postcards, cards, stationary, different things like that and drawing on the letters. I remember, you know, one of the big things around holidays was if it was Christmas time, you know, people would draw the nice Merry Christmas with the different colors and different things like that. And so, you know, I’m formerly incarcerated, and I served 14 and a half years myself and I did start off at Kern Valley, which we know is a high security level for when you talk about a program, and I just want to break that down real quick, as far as like, you know, not not being in compliance or doing different things or, you know, getting getting into fights. And, and there’s so much that’s taking place, especially during the holidays. And then you talk about, you know, him going through the SHU, which is the Segregated Housing Unit. And we know that that’s already, like, we’re like solitary confinement is it’s hard on people, especially during the holiday. So for you to come and create a business, but more so something that was compassion filled before business is so sentimental, because I remember, you know, like I said, being inside and seeing people around holidays, were some of the most depressing times where I’ve seen so many, you know, associates and different friends kind of lose it a little bit, right? Where they end up having to go to Segregated Housing Units to where they had to end up going to, you know, to see the psych because they couldn’t deal with being away from family. And as you know, over the years, it just accumulates, right? It may start as, you know, you may talk to some I may talk to somebody that has missed Christmas for two years and I may talk somebody that has missed Christmas for 25 years. And you know, at some point it, you can hit a breaking point. So thank you for sending you know, sending starting that business, with compassion and love, but now you are being able to touch so many different people, so I just want to just thank you on that.

Danielle  
Thanks. I mean, honestly, like, I would try to put myself like, in his shoes and your guys’s shoes, like, I used to hate working on Christmas Eve in the morning, you know? And I’m like, I want to be at home. So I couldn’t imagine being in a place, you know, that my husband was in that you were in, that 1000s of people are in, being away from home on the holidays. Like, that’s such an I mean, I can only imagine it’s such an ugly feeling.

Adam  
Yeah, it is tough. You know, and even not just the holidays, right? But birthdays. But moreao the holidays, because, you know, holidays is that one time of the year where if you haven’t seen your family in a year, right, or a couple years, what it may have been, usually around holidays is when families get together, you know? Depending on how you celebrate. And so we know that that holidays usually start, you know, picking up after you know Halloween, right? Because a lot of these holidays are celebrated inside, it’s just a little bit more tougher because people are incarcerated and and they are away from a family but they still try to find a sense of community, right? And I remember being at Donovan and seeing people like you know, get like Kool Aid and like put makeup on their face and like celebrate the Day of the Dead and different things like that. And it was so like, you know, people were so creative, but it seemed like once we started getting into like Thanksgiving and once we started getting into into Christmas, right? And being respectful of everyone, that’s when it really really got so, so tough on people where it was just like unbearable. And something that we used to do when I was in different groups, right we would kind of start like collecting food and we will actually pass out food to people that was less fortunate. That didn’t have packages, right? That wasn’t going to store. And even now, as I as I think about it, right some some of my closest brothers that I was inside with, they are still in there still carrying on little traditions that we had started because, you know, I was blessed to have my family but for a lot of people that didn’t have family we became a family by just saying hey, come you know we are going to be serving a spread. If you if you want to come by and get a spread, you know we’re gonna have tamales if you want to come by and get tamales, we will have tacos, burritos, you know, anything that we can make in the form of celebrating as family you know?

Danielle  
Yeah, you have to get creative like so you mentioning that reminded me of like during the holidays even like Fourth of July and those type of holidays, I would take- I usded to call them props because I didn’t know what else to call them, but I would print on my printer. Like for Halloween for example, I printed these little ghosts and I had they were pointing at each other and it would say my blue his boo and we would use that for our pictures for Halloween. Or like, I have a picture I was looking through my old photos the other day. I have one that they’re two hearts and one says hello one says 2016, so we use that for New Year Day. So I’d take in these little props and sometimes the COs would fight me on it like oh you can’t take that in. Why? I used to print it on picture paper. I’m like it’s a picture, I want to show him this. So they would fight me on it sometimes you know, but for the most part I was able to take it in. For his birthday I used to make little cakes out of like cupcakes and gummy bears or whatever I could find in the vending machine. I used to make a cake and then I would print out on picture paper Happy Birthday and then used to use the sporks in visiting and put the little three the three sporks at the top and use my little picture as a Happy Birthday banner for his cake, you know? And then I would get the whole visiting room to sing him happy birthday, I would get the quarters like, hey, can you tell everybody like, yeah, so those are the type of things that I would do like, you know, for different holidays and for Christmas. I know not every visiting room has this, but the last few years, maybe like the last four or five years, our visiting room had a fake Christmas tree. So what I did was on picture paper I printed out- it like a four by four picture and he’s a Raider fan, so I did like a little Raider logo with the Santa hat snd I put Macias family. So when we took up our picture, so it was like kind of like this behind me, so when we took our picture, I used that little four by four and I’m like, come on, let’s go, let’s go put it on the tree and for like those 2.5 seconds that was our tree, because we put our name on it, you know? So we put it right there and you know, we had it. So when we took a picture, you could see it, and I left it up there. So and the COs, I mean, I would tell them hey it’s a picture. And it was cool because other families started doing it. I did it for like three or four wives that I was cool with that asked me to do it, but other families started bringing their pictures and leaving it on the tree, so by the end of December, the tree was like full of different families. So it was actually pretty cool. You know? So that’s one thing, if you know, facilities allow that to try it out. The worst thing they can say is no, you know?

Crystal
You know, I really appreciate you sharing that with us, because it just shows the resiliency of you know, system impacted people in everything that we do in order to stay connected with our loved ones. My brother has been incarcerated since early 2019. This is the second time he’s incarcerated, the first time he was away for four and a half, almost five years and during that whole time, we never saw him or visited him. He was just too far away. And we were too poor to make that trip. And I remember the first time his first Thanksgiving there, he was really excited because he said all of the guys told him that’s when they feed you the best, that’s when you have like the best food on Thanksgiving Day. And then he called that same morning or that same day saying that somebody in the prison in the yard had had passed. And my brother was in his early 20s at that time, and it’s the first time he’d experienced that while he was incarcerated and death of an incarcerated person and I remember he was pretty devastated at the fact that that person like you mentioned, Adam, hadn’t seen his own family in like 20 years. And I remember that really, like really left my brother like shook, because he was doing I believe, like, eight, eight years at that time. But I really appreciate you sharing the ways to stay connected, because I’ve never visited my brother for a holiday because of COVID. It’s just been closed and he’s been really far away. And this is the first year that we have the opportunity to, to spend that time with him and just be there for him and form a sense of like connection. The only thing we do now is like a lot of pictures. That’s like his favorite thing. And he sent us a photo of himself holding a gift, like a present next to like this really small tree and I can see it in his eyes that he was just like, not wanting to be there and when he called he was like, well, I have a daughter now. He’s like, I have a daughter so I had to make, you know that extra effort. So I really appreciate you, you know, from one system impacted person to another, I appreciate you sharing the tips and tricks that I can do in order to connect.

Danielle
I mean, I share it all the time on my stationery page like I’ll find old pictures I’d be like hey, you guys try this, you know, and like I said, I tell them, that  the worst they can say is no. And they fight. I they used to tell me all the time and I’d be like let me speak to the visiting sergeant you know, because it’s a picture. So I mean, I always say it’s, I mean, it’s not worth losing your visit, but also don’t let them walk all over you because they will. But yeah, that’s definitely one thing that I used to do and he some of the pictures you can tell he did not want to do it, but I’m like, no we’re doing it. And at the end of the day, like now he tells me he’s like, I’m glad that we did all that stuff. He’s like, I know I just act hard, but I liked it. I’m like, I know you liked it.

Adam  
[laughs] He said I know I used to act hard.

Danielle  
Yeah [laughs]

Adam  
Right and just to just kind of go back. I mean, those are those are special moments, right? The creativity that that you know, we have to create. I remember one of my first and one of my first visits for for it was Thanksgiving, right? And just like Crystal said the food right? Like inside the food is like everything right? This is where we’re gonna get good key lime or sweet potato pie or apple pie or, you know, and it’s just like a slice of it, right? But it’s like, you know, you get more food than normal because usually the food in here is very, very bad, right? I’m gonna just straight up say it sucks, right? But I remember I had got to visit right and I was at Donovan and I got to visit and they’re they have their own caterer that comes in that sells us food and we’d be able to eat with our family and I just remember, right? I just she remember, like, being in there, and having like my turkey leg for the first time, after  so many years and it was just so like, it was just so special like me and my family was clowning. And they was like, laughing, not really laughing at me, but they was like happy, celebrate with me, because they knew that I haven’t had like real food, you know what I’m saying? And then like, for me what really feel good was like, when I came back to the yard, I know that it was people that was less fortunate and so when I because I had went to visit earlier, I would always try to, you know, share love and show kindness, and I would just go walk the chow, and I would just give my tray to some, just to any random person, you know, like, I see, I kind of scope out and see who I want to give it to and I’d give them a tray. I just remember, like, seeing me give a person a tray. And I gave a person his tray and then what he did was he shared it with everybody that was there, like the stuff that he didn’t want. And it just, you know, we find ways to stay connected, you know, and to show that kindness and so that’s, that’s a beautiful thing, because it’s very, very hard, right? I’ve seen people go through suicidal depression, very bad come around holidays, you know, during, during the whole year, they doing very, very well then come you know, holiday time, it gets rough, right? Because you know, we spend time with so many people in the yard. And then you know, you try to uplift them. And then you know, the ones that are going to visiting, you know, you’re trying to keep each other uplifted to get to the next visit, but to carry that love from that visit back to the yard, you know, so it’s definitely an exchange, specially around this time, during holidays, you know?

Danielle  
For sure.

Crystal  
That was going to be one of the questions that I had, for you both is the type of barriers that you all faced in order to stay connected? Danielle I know you talked about the COs and the sergeant, we know we know how they are, you know, they they do these things on purpose and the distance and the cost, that’s a barrier that my family faced a lot. So I’m wondering, because I really don’t think people who have not experienced incarceration realize just how difficult it is to stay connected with our loved ones, and just how intentional the system is set up so that we don’t have that connection with our loved one. So I’m wondering the type of barriers that you all faced, Danielle with with your husband and Adam, while you were inside to stay connected, especially during during the holiday season?

Danielle  
For us? Well, for me, I was blessed that he was never more than like three hours away. So, you know, it was, it was possible for me I was I for many years, I was at visit every single weekend. Every single weekend, I was there. But in part was, you know, I had a full time job, but I also started this side hustle, you know, and that enabled me to do that and be there for him a lot, a lot, a lot more than some families are able to. But I think the barrier was it was more like it was the CO,  it was a constant struggle. But the COs, you know, like, because that I was always always like the extra one, you know? Like even going to family visit. They would always say oh, here comes Ms. Macias and she brings a whole house with her because I tried to make it as comfortable for him as I possibly could. I brought bathmats and like I brought everything, you know? So for me the struggle was always like the COs and and them trying to just take away the little comfort I could bring even to a regular visit you know? Just it’s a picture, bro. Like, it’s a picture of- what like what’s the big deal? You know? So that for me, that was hard. And also, I guess it’s not a barrier, but trying to keep him uplifted during this time, you know? So, ew I don’t want to start crying. Um, let’s see. So, for me, it was important to get him away, or get him out of those walls for just a little bit. So I would talk to him about like, not not like what’s going on right now, but I would say hey, so when you come home, what’s going to be a tradition that we start? You now? So I would have him see past those walls. That was like super important. So we would talk about or I would tell him hey, there’s this thing called Candycane Lane, where there’s like streets full of lights. I’m like, I can’t wait until like we go walk and walk around the neighborhood, you know, so I just tried my best to like, get him out of those four walls. Out of those cement walls. To me, I think that’s super important and that’s why like I have I’m like in my stationery I have these things called like activity sets where there’s like different for different holidays I have like these kind of like writing prompts or like questions that you guys have asked each other. And even though I’ve known my husband since I was 15 and I’m 36 now, you know,  there was still things that I didn’t know. I didn’t know that his favorite lights are those big, ugly fat Christmas lights. I never knew that he liked those lights, but guess what? I gave, he gave in on me with like, the color theme he wanted, like, traditional Christmas, I’m like, we’re doing rose gold, right? THe lights are all him, so guess what we have big ugly fat Christmas lights. So so those activity sets allow, you know, a couple to get to those questions or you think you know, your spouse or your loved one, but you you learn stuff about them all the time, you know? So I think that’s really important to do whatever you can to get them out of those concrete walls for a little bit. Even if it’s just mentally. Just, get them out. Talk to them about stuff out here that you can’t wait to do with them. And even if they have a long sentence, or LWOP, my husband was supposed to come home in 2031. He came home last year, you know what I mean? So there’s like, so much hope, because in the beginning, he didn’t want to talk about being out he couldn’t see it. But I pushed and I pushed, you know? He’s like, oh, like I would tell him and he’s like, yep, yeah, babe that’s cool. Later on, I will say why don’t you ever want to talk about that, he’s like I’m not coming home to 2031. Like, I don’t even want to think about it, you know? But the more I got into advocacy work, the more I was convincing him that he was going to come home sooner than what what the piece of paper said, you know? He would get more into it and more into it, you know, so I think like, don’t let the sentence be a barrier, don’t let the distance or you know, how long he’s going to be in there be a barrier, you kno? I guess that’s like, the best I can put it, like, don’t let any of that stuff be a barrier because laws are changing all the time. I mean, I, I always use Jose as an axample. Like, he’s not like he always says I’m not supposed to be out right now. You know, and God is good, you know, so.

Adam  
Right. And I definitely feel where you’re coming from, because, you know, my sentence date was in 2024, but shout out to Initiate Justice and Prop. 57, you know, I was able to come home in 2020, after serving 14 years. And something that you talked about, and I don’t know why there’s just this word, just keep sticking to me, just the creativity, right? Just being creative. And even in conversation like you said, I remember having conversations with my wife, who was my girlfriend at the time and we would have the conversations of oh, I can’t wait to see the Christmas lights and you know, something that we would do around holidays to to get me out of that mindset of feeling so depressed and feeling down because the reality of it is right, one of the main barriers that we have right not only is with COs but is really trying to stay connected and keep having hope right? Because holiday season and not just holiday season is so miserable inside especially like when you sit inside of cell, right? And you know, you’re getting ready to go to yard and yard has been canceled. It’s no program for the day, no phones for the day. And they turn off all the lights right? Immediately. You just, it you just get depressed. Like it’s just you get sad because you was looking forward to going to yard and now you can’t go to yard. You was looking forward to this phone call and you can’t have a phone call because short of staff. Why is it short of staff? Because respectfully, they want to take the time off to be with their families and because they don’t have enough staff to run the yards they’re shutting it down. Right? So these is like different barriers and it becomes so depressing. Like, I remember looking out the window, and I’ll be like, I can’t wait to get the f out of here. Right? Because it would just be so sad, but I knew that I had to stay strong. And so something that once again, that we would do is how can we inspire because I had a date. Right? I would say how can I inspire everyone and remain giving them hope? And goes back to what she was talking about Danielle is with those conversations we’d ask them, some of the some of the people in the yar, hey, how would you like well, if you was home right now? How would you decorate your house? How would you decorate your Christmas tree? Right? And this is how we try to stay into into the holiday season. And there had been many times I’ve had conversations with people that didn’t celebrate Christmas, right? And they say well, you know, even though I don’t celebrate it, if I was to have a Christmas tree, this is how I would decorate it right? Just that right there. We would create good conversation to pull pull each other to lift each other up because of the darkness and because of the the gloom if you will, that takes place during holiday season.

Crystal  
That’s a really good point, Adam of you know, not only being able to connect with your own family and feel hope and you know, there’s a lot of times where my brother has made me feel- has brought comfort to me instead of like the other way around about him being away for so long. So I’m really curious to know Danielle more about your business and I know you said you you have these activities that they can do inside and out and tell us where we can find you? Where people can purchase, like, follow etc? And then also curious about, because you told us a little bit about how it got started, but I’m curious to know about the impact that you’ve seen now that you’ve had it for a while in, in those family connections throughout all the holidays such as Christmas, but you know, birthday celebrations, Hanukkah, anniversaries, you celebrated 13 anniversaries while your loved one was incarcerated, so I’m very curious to know about more about your business and how that’s helped with connections.

Danielle  
So man, that’s a good question. Okay, so, um, yeah, so I do have these activity sets, I think I have one for pretty much almost every holiday, where there just are, you know, prompts that you ask each other. I have one for New Years, that’s something that says, you know, our goals, obviously, for 2023 and then also it reflects, like, what, what do I wish that I handled better in 2022, and you know, stuff like that. Things that sometimes you may not talk about, like, on a regular visit, or on the phone, because you only have 15 minutes. So I have stuff like that, or I have 12 Days of Christmas, where it’s like 12 different prompts about, you know, 10 reasons why I love you so much, and stuff like that, that helps the mail keeps flowing. I also incorporated, I had a Christmas package where it had like, what was called a holiday package where I had like two cards for Thanksgiving, four for Christmas, and a New Year’s card. But in that package, I also included these stockings that had like a premade hole at the top where you know, your loved ones can run a piece of string through it and hang it in their cell, you kno? And then it came along with a little Christmas tree. It was you know, it’s a small, it’s a small Christmas tree, because, you know, the mailroom, but um, so many people loved that. And I get messages all the time, almost daily of my loved ones, my husband put his Christmas tree, and him and his cellie are so happy to have a tree in his cell. And it may be small, but like just seeing a oh, I wanna cry again,  just seeing those messages are the best messages besides like, hey, my loved one is coming home. Those are my second favorite. You know, like, my husband is his first Christmas tree in 10 years and they told me that they you know, they hung there- like some girl, she ordered like 10 different stockings for her husband’s friends, you know, so they could all have stocking on the tear, you know? So I mean, that type of stuff means so, so much to me, you know, like, and those are all things that I used to do for my husband. And he’s like, babe you’re so corny sometimes. I’m like, shut up you know? Hearing in his voice that he loved it. So I feel like, you know is that was the extra money great while he was incarcerated for sure, you know, but it was knowing that I’m helping people. I’ve hit all 50 states, you know? I shipped to yeah, I’ve shipped to France, I’ve shipped overseas, so knowing that not only all over the US, I’m bringing, I’m helping bring a little joy, you know, because they always say thank you, you know, you’re doing I’m not doing it, I’m helping you do it. You know, like, I’m not doing anything. I’m just sharing what I love to do but I’m, I’m helping you, you know, you’re the one giving your loved one this joy, you know? So I think besides the, my husband is coming home or you know, those are my second favorite knowing that, that these these men and women are really appreciative and they look forward to it, you know, oh, like this one. I know, in the podcast they won’t be able to see but like, I already started Christmas, right? I mean uh Valentine’s, so will you be my Valentina? You know, so they get this one, I had this one for Christmas that it says we go together like, and it was like a picture of a Top Ramen and then it says, and, and then it has like, a summer sausage. And he’s like, you know what I mean? And this girl just sent me a message was saying, my husband said that that was the best card he’s ever gotten from me because I mean, it’s relatable you know? That’s why my hashtag is always like Hallmark could never, you know, because there is there is nothing out there for us on the shelves, you know, and

Crystal  
Right.

Danielle  
And that’s, that sucks, you know? So I’m glad that not only you know, am I am I helping women and you know, show this kind of love to their, to their people, but I also feel like, like women like me, we’re seen. You know what I mean? Because you can’t find this type of stuff at Hallmark. They have damn near every card for any occasion happy like,  National Pizza Day, but they don’t have anything for people that have not loved ones incarcerated, you know? So I feel like I’m helping people feel seen. There’s other people out there like me, because in the beginning when my husband went in, there was no support groups. There was no support pages. There was nothing, you know? So thankfully through social media, the community was built, you know, and so I think that’s the best thing that I’ve gotten from starting a stationary page, also this community because during COVID, I used to have Danielle after dark because on Friday night and that’s when Danielle got got a little twisted, and I would get on the live and we would just talk because nobody was waking up Saturday morning to go to visit. Everything was you know, locked down. So I would get a little twisted and we would listen to music and I would just talk to all these ladies who were in the same exact shoes. Missing our loved one, wishing we could be there. It was a scary time, you know, like just being out here even scarier, knowing that your husband, your brother, your son was in there, and we couldn’t do anything to help, you know? So I think just just having that support, like, yes, it’s a stationary page. Yes, it’s a business. But I really do feel like my followers were like, our own little community, like our own little tribe, because there’s still there’s girls who their loved ones come home, still follow me. I still follow them. I’m seeing them grow, getting pregnant, getting married, their loved ones are getting jobs. They still order for me, you know, even though their loved one is home. Hey, his birthday is coming up, can I get a card, like they’re still supporting me, even though their loved one is home and they can get some regular schmegular cards. So I felt like the community that I felt built on my Instagram, which is True Blue Stationary, um, is, is just, it’s awesome. And that’s why I’ve stayed, like my husband’s home. I don’t need to be really doing this anymore, but I actually quit my nine to five. And this is my full time now. And yeah, so.

Crystal  
Well, I I want to commend you for everything that you’ve done, and then spreading that love and motivation to the rest of us because it can be very difficult. It can be very difficult to stay connected and like find ways to stay connected and have that hope, you know, being able to see outside those four walls, as well. And I know this, this was a tough episode for all of us and you know, it’s gonna be an episode, that’s probably going to be hard to listen to for a lot of us. So to end this with, you know, a glimpse of hope, more hope because your business really is, you know, a lot of hope. I am wondering how the holidays are now for y’all? Adam and you and your loved one now that they’re home. I know that incarcerations stays with us for a long time probably forever. I know when my brother came home after the first time like the impact was still there. And now unfortunately he’s back but really curious to know how the holidays are now with your loved ones and what y’all do? What traditions do you have?

Adam  
Oh, thank you. I gotta tell you it. Oh, it’s just so amazing. You know I have to I have to be an only been home two years. In my first year home I had my Christmas party with my sister. I was staying with my sister at the time. And so you know we had we had a we had a Christmas party and you know we had a little family gathering and it was just like, it was just amazing right? Because we all had our ugly Christmas sweaters and this is something that always wanted to do. And so you know now we like you say Crystal we are creating our own traditions and you know I’m blessed enough and fortunate enough that I have my own house so me and my wife you know, we had we had our first you know Thanksgiving dinner you know celebrating family more than anything. And so and then you know getting ready to have Christmas party, New Year’s party different things like that. So you know the holidays now is very, very different. I still find myself honestly, I still find myself kind of isolating myself just a little bit throughout the holiday time just because um you know, I still have so much remorse and I still I still have so much empathy for for my loved ones I still inside. For my brothers, to my cousins, and just family that still inside. And even speaking to Inside Organizers throughout throughout the holiday season as well. And so you know all these kinds of just take just take a little bit of time to keep them in mind and the hold them dear. And they’re the reason and the reason why I continue to push into a lot of different things so that’s how it’s  looking. That’s probably what I would, little hope that I will leave is that it does get better and when you get better you will feel it. It is I think it’s on us to continue to spread that so it can get better for others.

Danielle  
For me, the holidays are a lot less heavy. It’s a blessing to have him home. Um, it’s a second Christmas home. We started our little tradition and when we decorate the Christmas tree I play Christmas music, I make this some hot chocolate and we just decorate our tree together. We started I don’t know if you guys saw on TikTok this like Saran Wrap ball game. On Christmas Eve where you, yeah, it’s like, it’s hard to explain but it’s, it’s we do it on Christmas Eve with my whole family. And so that’s like our gift, I mean, they get regular gifts, but that’s like our gift to the family that we like pass the Saran Wrap ball with like Scratchers and candy and all kinds of stuff. And that’s like now our thing that we look forward to and, but I’m on Adams point, I tried to, I share a lot of our personal journey on my Instagram, to share that hope to show like it’s possible, you know? A sentence is not permanent. You know what I mean? It can change. My husband, like I said, had 25 years, he was home in a little under 13, you know? So there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Doesn’t matter how small you feel it is that light is there. Focus on the light. Do not focus on the sentence. Don’t focus on the sentence. Take it a day at a time, but focus on that light. It’s there and honestly, it gets brighter, and anything is possible and you can bring them home.

Crystal  
Thank you, Danielle. And thank you both for sharing. I am going to hold on very dearly to this conversation this holiday season because I think it’s like the eighth or ninth without my brother home. So thank you both for sharing and to our listeners, don’t forget to follow and support Danielle’s business @TrueBlueStationary across all platforms. Go check it out for you and your loved ones and remember to take care of you.

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